Event ID: 3083919 Event Started: 10/26/2016 7:00:00 PM ---------- [ Please stand by for realtime captions ] Good afternoon this is Robbin with NCDB. We are running a little late, so we will get started shortly. It looks like Mike is in the room and he will be kicking off the webinar so I will give them just a moment to get on the phone. Then we will get started. My apologies for the delay. It looks like there's some confusion on the timing of this webinar it does say 12:30 Pacific time for the starting. So I apologize for that. It looks like we're gathering ourselves and we will plan to start at 12:30 Pacific time to give others who actually read the announcement to get here. >> Webinar today starts at 12:30 Pacific time. We will get started in just a few minutes. I wanted to prompt the presenter's to check and make sure you're on the phone and to get your WebCams started here. Then we can get things kicked off here. Okay, it looks like it's time to get started. There are several of us are used to these meetings starting at the top of the hour and some of the presenters were not here at the time so we panicked a little bit. But, we are here. Can everybody hear us? Can someone please type into the chat pod if you are hearing us. I will get the recording started and handed over to Mike to kick off this webinar. >> Thank you very much Robin. I wish I had gifts for all the people who got here early. I thank you for your enthusiasm and I'm looking forward to spending this next hour with you. I guess it's customary to begin with a cliché of some type? I'm thinking time sure does fly. We were just together in August about two months ago and it feels it was eons ago. The good thing is that, we have an opportunity to speak with you all today to do a follow-up from our time together in DC. If you remember what we asked for each of the initiatives to provide content and initiative updates. And each of you would organize around where your housed at whether it's a big state or a little state University or Department of Ed, the transition initiative did not have an opportunity to hear your feedback at the end of our presentation because we had so many initiative pieces that we need to put together and share with you. So today I'm looking forward. This is the opportunity for the network to be heard around some of the initiative work, some of the things that you're thinking about around transition and we are hoping that the way this webinar has been organized will meet your needs. What we are going to do today is Susie is going to talk with us a little bit about what is new around ITTI and Tracy will talk a little bit around what's new in net ITTI. It will take us into conversation with you all about some things that are happening in transition it -- and what we're hoping to do to maximize our time is to have some prefab questions which we can have discussions around them. I'm going to use the polling feature which will enhance our conversation. After Tracy is finished with her piece following up after Susie we will go into the discussion and Jerry will help facilitate that. So I'm going to turn this over to Susie. Again, thank you for coming. >> Hi folks, I guess it is our own set of collaborative activities we have to coordinate our time to start together. And happy to be here of course. It was have to talk about transition. Mike skip pass the slide but looks like to cover all these points. So I guess it's best to talk that we have taken a big focus on transition as our five main initiatives on the grant. We have a large population aging out and being a large state with a pretty fractured system it's always been a big focus for us. So I didn't want to take a bunch of time and talk about what ITTI it is, because we were to talk about that and we have participated in a multistate initiative around it for a good couple of years. We really did have to step back and reassess. That's what we are always doing at our branch. If we're doing something and it's not really working we have to step back and reassess and learn from that. In doing so, going back to our grant and saying what did we say were our long-term outcomes? These two are the ones that are listed here achieving things like outcomes and work, community and home and postsecondary education. And then affecting the system that provides. They are part of the transition process obviously that's two very big pieces and in a state like this we have to wrestle with how to address those thinking from the bottom-up and top-down approach. So, just keeping in mind that those really are the driving forces here. We have to be honest in looking at since the ITTI was based around a year-long initiative, the academic year, it requires the whole educational team for a good portion of it to commit to working with us. Then we would go in and provide pretty significant intensive TA. Because we are constantly carrying folks along. So sitting back and looking at what happened, remembering the good stuff, but being real about the struggles. I think the ongoing struggle, what we pull out in data, is the lack of understanding the need for why I should start this process now? There will be plenty of time later. We hear that a lot. Naturally it's very difficult to pull all these multiple players together who are critical in the transition process for this young adults. So, sort of finding the time to come together. And having varied administrative support that administrative buy-in is obviously been challenging. It just depends on the building and the location. We found was we had a lot of sporadic participation. Like all of us they are very busy people and they try to fit it in when they could. But self-reported they found that they were always grabbing bits of pieces here and there, which didn't help piece it all together. We thought the intention in the initiative was to do that and thread pieces together to make this process easier. So, initially at the beginning of the school year the patient is great the team is motivated and so is the family. I think critically will know the best practices, that if you don't have a key person for the facilitator or the coordinator, then things kind of fall apart. Noticing that in school there's a transition coordinator. That's a part of the actual duty and they can help things stay together. But that's not so often the case. We just had this TBI take on the role is just one more extra thing on their plate. It ended up falling on us. We have to sit back and say is that really the role of what we should be engaging in. So really kind of reflecting back, So saying what are we doing and what should we shift to, is a multilayered framework that we all provide a service in. So looking at the general level, obviously we do the same things that everyone else does in terms of sharing resources and connecting family and what have you. But we felt what we need to do was shift and we are always trying to fit our square peg into the round hole - into something that doesn't fit. So shifting back, it really is a systems issue, and if that is the case we need to get out there on a larger state level even if it's just general disabilities in transition planning. Make a play and get ourselves out there and get known. That's been a big shift for this year. It's some ways general awareness on us and our kids. How they can benefit from their services and vice versa. In terms of targeted, we will maintain webinars for sharing information. Then focusing on it. We just hired a family specialist so another full time person -- covering this large state does not necessarily work. So having somebody else be a point person and take over the present coordination has made a big difference. This year we did not recruit new teams. That was a big decision. We're going to continue to support and reach out to transition aides but not necessarily have it coordinated here is the start and here is the end. That's what were kind of shifting away from just that. If we're asked to come in for transition planning meeting of course will. But not doing it in such a way that shall we say is mandatory to be participating in the process. So we are trying to get ourselves out there in a different way. It's always a gamble. A risk to make a shift. But knowing that it's still on the line is what we are doing or aiming to do and being okay with that. So here is what are big focus is. Work with us and help us coordinate this year's webinar series. We are still hosting once a month a very detailed content that would be helpful for anyone transitioning, and if you missed the last one it was recently by Dave Brewer who is at Cornell here in New York talking about transition. We're trying to create some of those basic partnerships because have a pretty large strate wide transition grant. -- Reaching out to our state agencies again, it's one of those very cyclical repetitive efforts that we feel like we have to make. Because these are just our acronyms for our state it doesn't matter what state you are in everybody has that acronym. Our young adults are going back and forth between agencies and trying to continue to raise the awareness of their staff particularly for transition aged folks. And these statewide presentations - some of these are new environments for us to be in. I'm really happy to say we have on the calendar what's already done. So far this fall we have them coming up - larger state level transition related stuff. Adjusted a presentation about 2 weeks ago. Hoping that it's worth our efforts. Some of us were asked to sit on a board review for one of the parent centers. So you're seeing some really tangible pieces to that in connecting particularly around transition. For the first time ever, this past summer we hosted a large statewide transition conference. This is a new one for us. Want to join the can you give us the A-OK and joint efforts on that. Kind of a way to bring all the ITTI pieces together. Bringing in those who have participated in the full initiative and coordinate with state agencies. We have this amazing incredible number of agencies representative, so some really nice things came out of that. We didn't necessarily have the ability to do it. So than the other big piece were focusing on is all the work we've done. All that we put in to ITTI is this resource kit . You've seen these before, if you have done any of the ITTI stuff, these are tools that we have piloted over. These are the ones that the most helpful for the team sense of planning. The transition planning timeline that you've seen, the major areas of transition planning and examples of transition services and culminating and putting together a portfolio. It's something that would be not too bulky and it captures the likes and dislikes and goals of the young adult. So that's kind of where we are right now. Things do feel different with transition to us in New York. We feel like we're carry along the ITTI mission but, taking a bit of a different shift based on feedback and participation. Looking to have something that's very useful. I'm feeling that this resource kit could do that - taking it on the road to conferences that we go to. That's the New York update. >> Thank you next up is Tracy. >>Hi everybody, first off I'd like to acknowledge the work that we have done here in the New England Consortium. It was founded on the work that Susie did in New York we engaged in that initiative around the first year of the grant, we got our various teams and estates going. A lot of lessons learned along the way. Last year we forged similar models trying to look at areas that we could highlight specific agencies in our state. Sometimes, as you know, even if you say find this particular agency in your state. If it has a different name or acronym, people still have a hard time making that leap. They'll say that's not our state or we do it differently. A wall goes up. So we have a tried to address that in our particular states. We had our teams targeted and we stepped back in the summer to think about where we wanted to go next. We thought a lot about if we wanted to do a similar process targeting the teams and planned around transition activities. Or would we decide to focus more on a transition weekend as the folks in the southeast have done. Our Consortium team wanted to keep going with the team process. They felt that several of the teams were up and going. So we are still working on our topics. The wonderful part is to help facilitate. Betsy, as some of you may know, has helped me coordinate new topics and infuse some new energy into it to pull along some additional teams. So we definitely require parent participation in each of the teams that we work with. We have identified a lead team member and it's focused on planning. The new piece for us we started last year is adapting the Cedar document. Now we're using it across our teams to get a free as to where they are today and the post for the end of this process in June. This is the CEDDAR document that we adopted. Involving students, transition planning skills. Encouraging parent involvement. Envolving parenteal expectations. Connecting students. Implementing cross disciplinary planning. It takes a lot of work, a lot of nuts and bolts getting in there on the ground by reminding people about the meeting and sending an agenda out, walking people through login information. Making sure that the meeting space has been arranged and that the administrator is on board with it. I Found that this document results helped to underscore that. We are trying to address that as we move forward in this next year. So, again we have Betsy set up as the lead TTI and she is working with our family specialist skilled in transition. It's been nice to have a parent driving in the car with Betsy along the way. We are really emphasizing the IT transition planning process at the beginning which we did not do as much last year. I think that was a mistake. Certainly I just recently had a meeting with a SPED director to make sure that all of our work aligned goes on with state transition. Being brutally honest with you, just trying to find out what those initiatives are. That takes a lot of work. So that has been a bit of a surprise to me. Thought it would be a little bit more transparent at least knowing contract people and to to connect with. It's been a bit of a struggle. The TDP, I go back and forth on this are not sure if people care one way or another, and then again it really structuring this. We are moving forward and I think we have stronger engagement in each of our states. But I would say that it still a struggle in terms of the ongoing commitments. Those team facilitators as well as our state coordinator is going to be very big piece for us moving forward. We are connecting once again we have another round of the WIOA funding. Is that a great offshoot to tie these kids and these teams into some preemployment experiences and planning this past summer we will be doing the same thing I have already contracted for summer 2017. I would also like to add that Mike was really instrumental in a particular student we had who was somewhat unique to us. Who I would say was much more on a very strong employment track. There needed to be some much more intensive support for the family. From my perspective, that was a support that really helped us with this team and, you know you're doing well when they ask you to come back. So without further ado I will turn it over to Jerry. >> All go through this slide with you for those of you on the phone who do not have the PowerPoint it's one of my favorite African Proverbs. "If you want to go fast, go alone". So, this leads us into the brainstorming together and I thought it made sense, because we all know that families are the reason why we do this. One of the things that links us to gather is the census. Sometimes you complete the census that the end of the year and you move on to provide technical assistance the following school year. So Mark helped us pulling together really some good information around just what's happening out there nationally around the kids. Some of you are very familiar with this we touched base with it while we were together in DC. Just the large piece here is 40% of the kids 14 through 22 are at transition age. This means that the work that we do, it is important. It is impactful and this is why we are working around this together. I think moving forward, every conversation that we've had around transition that brings our expertise together and our resources will really benefit the families. Maybe what we do before we going to brainstorming with Jerry, I'll ask Robbin to put up one poll. This question here is, what challenges are most prevalent for the young adult? You got some choices here. Good transition assessment. Collage career preparedness. Family engagement. Other. And no vote. I'll give you just a second to vote on that. So it looks as though we've got good transition assessment. Let's end the poll. It looks as though higher numbers are on college preparedness and supporter and family engagement. Great. So maybe we go onto this next slide. Jerry, take it away. While Jerry is pulling this together. >> I'm here now. >>. Mike and I talked earlier. Hello everyone first of all is good to see everyone I wanted to give a short kind of announcement that the data for the national transition study that I was doing has been cleaned finally. I've got the latest of the clean data on Monday. So, I have had a chance to pour through some of it. But in about another three weeks I'll have preliminary results of that data and we will start doing correlation. We have already started doing some piercings against it with my graduate students. Is some interesting data coming out with that. Much of which is very good data. Like good results. Some successes we have increased. What we have found though, an interesting thing that I didn't expect, was that parents satisfaction went down. I wondered why that may be, there are a number of other things coming out with that. So if anybody needs to talk to me about that please just reach out. Michelle is usually the contact person will start putting up the data up on the website so people can manipulated themselves. Once I get the first analysis done. So Mike and I met over the weekend. We chatted about what was going on. What are some of the important questions. Our experience here in New Jersey for our alumni program. Students who have left school and we are following them and helping them get jobs. For the blind project this is a VR people, I'm learning some very interesting things about the world of work out there. We talked a lot about that. When does transition planning and assessment leave or lead to real work. How long does that last for students. I have a lot of strong feelings about that since our work over the past three years has been very nixed in the results. Maybe in another webinar we can share some of the work they were doing here. Some more challenges and how were finding small solutions to those challenges. And eventually finding jobs for kids. So we put all that together and generated some questions. The first one is, why does the national data as well as anecdotal evidence continue to suggest that transition planning associated educational programming's? That is what Tracy and Suzie said. They were linking assessment with planning for hope that that would lead to really good outcome. We need to remember that is not just person centered planning not just planning it plenty of overtime static process. And then what do we do to make sure that kids can get jobs and live independently and live quality lives. So since we know that youth are not yielding the anticipated desire that you expect or want from that, such as paid employment, independent living, etc. Why is that occurring? What does it suggest and why? So that is where we are going. Mike, how do we --. >> At this point you can unmetered your phones. If you have any responses you can also use the chat pod to respond to Jerry's question. I'd love to hear your voice too, that's a great benefit to do that if you unmetered your phones. Or I can just have Robin unmute the phones and make it easier on everyone. >> People can press the 6 and then the Star key on their phone and then they will be admitted. >> Maybe are not experiencing the same thing as the national data would suggest. Maybe you're saying turnaround in your individual states. However, I can't say that here in New Jersey. The national data that I'm collecting and have the collective seems to indicate that were struggling with getting the kind of post school outcomes that we expect. It's not just what we expect, it's what parents and families expect. They're continuously concerned about how to craft quality lives for their kids. They are in panic right now. So I don't know if you guys are experiencing this. But why is this occurring? We have spent so much energy over the last 20 years. At least the last 10 years. Initiatives that are supposed to link to better outcomes. Yet that correlation doesn't seem to occur. >> Give it a second if anybody needs to respond or if you have a question. >> This is Tracy, I have really struggled with this question. Because I think you know we're going into the third year on this now. Prior to this grant year I feel like we have tried so much at this larger systems piece that Susie was talking about. But we are going into programs where there is not enough planning time and they don't do person center planning. Or they do and they use map send different tools. They aren't even inviting parents to the meeting. That's how ineffectual some of this is. I guess we stepped back and said, we are going to have the most impact on that student and that family if we go in and work one-on-one and try to drive the car. It's very tedious and I feel torn about it because it's very labor intensive. I don't feel like we get the strong outcomes without that level of intensity. That's just my experience so far. >> I agree with you so far but the only success we have been able to get this focusing intensive technical solutions and focusing on individual children. Frankly, it's also then coordinating with the direct service people. So it wasn't until we hired somebody through VR fund to actually go in and job develop. We have a network of consultants that we have trained across the state that are paid through a series of their successes. If they complete the discovery process than they get a certain amount of money. If they get a job interview they get a certain amount of money. This is system put in place in the coordinator that goes and does it. The only way we have been realizing light success. I don't want to blow this out were trying our best. The only way for that intensive focus. I don't know any other way. I feel like I am in the inclusion initiative were told you got to include people with deaf and blindness. And nobody was including anyone. >> So Jerry, in the chat box Krista writes in "I think sometimes we do a great job to prepare students and families but we don't always do a great job of reaching out and educating the community". >> We have learned a few things like not going to an employer by saying we've got a deaf and blind person that can really do a great job for you. We've learned from the mistakes we've made. We are currently looking at business models where we are going to nuture your businesses that have more than one place in the state like Target, those kinds of places. So that we can nurture a network of all the employers. The other piece is, not that we've ignored it, but I don't know what to do with it. Families love their children. But they don't want to envision their children throughout their entire lives living with them. I think sometimes the kids don't envision the same thing. >> At least not mine. >> Let's move to the next slide. I will ask Robbin again took put up the pole. What can the DB network due to collaborate opportunities with the Helen Keller national Center? Utilize HKNC in advisory capacity. Encourage HKNC participation in IEP process. Collaborative with HKNC to facilitate WIOA implementation. Other. And no vote. Okay I'll give it just a second for those of you to answer and chime in.It looks like C, with collaborate with HKNC to facilitate WIOA implementation. >> I think that I agree with that. It's been a long time since the 90's when transition initiative Band-Aids came off and said teams must invite adult agencies and others to the process like VR. But we never know what to do with that. So I think the new regulations really give us an opportunity here. Helping to support and to create job opportunities is one of the challenges. >> Susie saying yes in the chat box. So do have another question? >> So what national initiative and/or infrastructure and partnership can be established to influence a continued pattern? So what can we do together? Will begin infrastructure initiative that leaves the network and its partners to be established and positively influence the change in this pattern. Planning and good planning associated educational planning and pulling off the radar. What do you think could happen? What initiatives could occur? I think that last polling got that one of them. I think that by doing a better job partnering with HKNC would not be bad. I think it would be a real good start. >> Someone had written in and had chosen other. So whoever it was that chose that, it's nice to hear some of your feedback so we can increase our knowledge. >> That was me, Linda, I think what I was thinking about was already an answer to this particular question that I would love to pursue a stronger parthnership with HKNC. Really in a way of what needs to happen nationally so there are supports in the community when students transition out. I'm talking agencies and providers actually having a way to increase their knowledge and skill of working with someone who is deaf-blind. Part of what needs to happen is that it's clear which agency will take on the responsibility for that better assessment planning that needs to happen so that the students graduate this enough good solid information that introduces the student and their support needs for successful transition life activities to really happen. This conversation has just started a just getting more and more urgent. >> Does anyone else have a question? >> Let me make another comment. The school system who's responsible for a lot of things least likely for kids who are deaf until age 21, have been focusing on the education and common core, or whatever standards your state has adopted. And emphasis on statewide assessment is no secret. It has been increasing in ratcheting up over the last 10 years. Specifically in the last 3 to 5 years. I do believe that an infrastructure, I think the education system is supporting transition especially for kids with complex needs like deaf blindness, are going to be falling behind. I don't think they envisioned educating kids in standards outside of the classroom. Therefore, I see almost see it as either or. You know if you want that then you have to the functional curriculum. Think we need to re-energize or reeducate the education system to say that this is their responsibility. It's not just for planning that links for success later on like having kids with paid job while they're in school. I Think they need to be brought in and along with Helen Keller, the individual states, VR agencies that are focused on blind and visual impairment or deaf and hard of hearing, need to be brought in as well. They're specific organizations that do that or focus on that. We will present at Albuquerque and the number of other projects nationally. I think we need to get a partnership with them. There is a place for them and I know they want to listen. I know that NFB has focused on deaf blindness in the more recent years. There are a lot of partners that we need to bring together to have a common voice. >> Let's go to the next slide, but before I do that I'll ask Robbin to put up the polling question while Linda and Krista write in the chat box. The very next polling question is "is there collaborative systems work that is parent and possible? -- Are apparent and possible. The choices are a) yes, I'm aware, b) no, I'm unaware, and c) unsure. So that is a collaborative system that is apparent and possible. >> It appears planning is not enough. Although there is evidence that having a job or job experience while in high school may be correlated with higher levels of post school employment, this does not seem to be enough. What needs to happen to forge the bridge from school to a successful adult life, that we haven't accomplished or attempted? The independent living centers have been... we've even got a good job here connecting with them with our deaf-blind project. >> I'll just reclip Chris really quickly: Another resource that can be utilized by the independent living centers. South Carolina has a very active centers who are happy to work with our deaf-blind project to work with our student needs. And on behalf of WIOA, they areincreasing their focus on student. These are groups that will support our students after they graduate. -- Tracy agrees.Susie agrees. Linda agrees as well she says - school does not need to take responsibility for appropriate a session for academic outcomes. But who was better funded at the moment for the more intense assessments. Needed for students with multiple disabilities? If it's VR, which agency will be providing the long term support and knowledge and skills to make support students with multiple disabilities? >> I agree with all that but what haven't we done or accomplished yet? What haven't we done? We've made a concerted effort to work with VR. But more of that needs to occur. I think. >> Susie wrote into this question - For them it is the coordination of services within a fractured system. Families and professionals are unclear as to what agencies they should turn to. So it return it makes the transition more diccicult. >> That is exactly it. Is frustrating for parents. It's frustrating for us. I have to tell you I am still pouring through the new VR regulations to try to understand that. It's not really inherient to us educators. >> Melanie has a comment, we need a systemic funding stream to change the way they are funding. That would allow for our DB students, especially those with complex needs, to receive the proper support when they graduate. For example, many of the Pacific Islands don't have VR and in Hawaii we a few options except DR to support adults. Linda adds the news to be clarity at the national and state level about who can best do what. They need to be served by multiple agencies at the adult service-level in order to be successful. >> The funding streams are siloed - the VR and ITTI. But they're under one agency which is a good thing. I think we have an opportunity here to bring those together. >> So Linda and Melanie agree with you Jerry. Linda is still typing. Anybody else have any comments they want to chime in on the phone? Anything related to this question or anything else? >> So maybe I can ask Robbin again to put up the pole and then I'll come back to Linda's comment in the chat box. What is the current status of your project in terms of collaborative transition work? Choices are: Interested. Or have engaged in current initiative work. Interested are having engaged in multi-collaborative state. TA. Engage in or have plans to collaborate with multiple states to address a common challenge. Not engaged in a transition collaborative activity at this time. No vote. >> It looks as though it's A, Interested or having engaged in current initiative work. Collaboration is alive and well in the transition network. Thank you Robbin . Let's go to Linda's comment in the box; system-level decisions are about funding streams. Fundings for assessment is that VR but funding for long-term support is with medical -- Medicaid funding. >> Thats the other problem. Were trying to become a Medicaid provider and my gosh. It's a bear. Is not good when you have a medical insurance system doing that kind of work. >> What is and what should be in the future, the role of that project in regards to fostering the transition from school to adult life to use for deaf-blind. What's the future role for these 3 entities that are focused on blindness in transition? >> It looks like Linda's typing. If there's anybody else who wants to talk >> This is Tracy. Having done the transition initiative for the last three years. The amount of work it takes to identify these training topics and get the webinars planned, recorded ,and uploaded. The existing documents, I'm wondering, just writing this out there. If they, NCDB, would take that over? Because there's even more information that we could put on our site. That would help tremendously. Because then I can direct my teams to that site. They can take what they need or don't need. And then perhaps we can focus more of our energy on some of the systems stuff. I also wanted to add that I have sat in so many state rehab transition plan and meetings with a gazillion people. But I still think it comes down to finding that team facilitator or parent or individual who's going to take the ball, run with it and stay on point. If you cannot find a person who's going to help keep that team going, I just find it doesn't go anywhere. >> All right, anybody else want to add to that? While you're thinking about that over to wrap up this last slide. With Linda's comment about Medicaid. Medicaid doesn't pay assessment it pays for staff training this would help our youth to be better served. This was from the last set. Sorry I was a late on sharing that. >> Is very restrictive and it changes depending upon what waiver your state has. But generally speaking, it's hard to negotiate with other systems. >> Does anyone want to chime in about this last question regarding the role the future of the deaf-blind projects in collaboration with NCDB or HKNC or with our eyes focused on trying to improve post school outcomes. Linda says state projects and family organizations and in NCDB and HKNC can advocate at national and state level for the integrity agreement needed for who can and should fund what. Anybody else? >> The very last poll question is how helpful was this webinar. Fill this out and I'll give you a quick what were hoping to do. I will listen to the recording of this webinar and pull out the notes. It's very easy because we have a transcript. This will help us as we think about partnerships moving forward. Linda mentioned before with HKNC, focusing on kids with special needs. I'll take these notes and essentially put them together and put them on their transition landing page and it will give us information as we move forward. Will have information for Summit, the rest of the year and into the end of the grant cycle. >> Susie writes that NCDB is constantly being reminded as to where to find tools. Absolutely. That would be helpful again. I believe Ruthanne typing in as well. Transition is always the main goal but always time-consuming. It takes a village. So with that being said all thank everyone for the late early start, however your perspective is on that. I look forward to further discussion around this very tricky but great topic. Thank you again. [ Event concluded ] >>